I doubt the issue here is not reading the comments carefully so much as a genuine disagreement. However, it’s worthwhile to explain our positions because we may find points of agreement along the way or at least understand where the other person is coming from better. Even in marriage, there are times when my husband and I are disagreeing, but by talking it out, we find we’re far more on the same page than we originally realized. I’m happy to see readers thinking about these issues and discussing them–especially in the context of biblical teaching.

By the way, God looks at the heart, but I don’t think I’m going to get much credit for good intentions. God doesn’t let David or Paul stay there with good heartedness; He demands that they step out and act like godly people. I tend to see the heart leading and the actions following, and the departure only being a matter of time and God’s refining. Anyway, that’s my two cents, for whatever it’s worth (two cents?).

Blessings to you both, Kristi & E!

You missed the point. Kindly ask you to read again, more carrefully.

Yes actions reflect the heart. But God looks at the heart for sometimes action is departed from heart: like Paul, I want to do good but evil sets close to me – the good I want to do I don’t do etc…..

And I have stated, just like Greg, what are the specific roles that God assignes to men and women.

E

Hi Greg,

I included some of the answer in the part of my post that you quoted: “They have chosen to display meekness as an external quality and not an interal one.” To me, and I believe that indirectly the Bible backs me up here, godly meekness is an internal quality and one that is very attractive to a woman who loves the Lord. However, when men try to portray this quality by speaking in overly soft tones, standing slightly bowed, and barely making eye contact, I find that to not only feel disingenuous, but also extremely non-masculine.

I also find snide comments to be less than attractive, as well. It’s not about what’s “in” or “out”. It’s about a man being a man of the Lord, and not attempting to “portray” himself in any way other than how the Lord created him and not putting on a show to appear to be something other than what he is.

I think women need to KNOW that their man, like Christ, can stand up fully for what’s right, but does so with kindness and humility. I’m sorry, but some godly men seem to believe that includes being wimps. It doesn’t.

I do think that people need to reevaluate what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman, especially with how twisted societal media has portrayed them. Manliness is not about growing big and handling yourself in a fight and taking a woman just as femininity is not about how many clothes you have or if you wear make up or not or if you know how to flirt and please a man sexually (and I’m afraid, this is much of what the media is teaching men and women, old and young, married and single).Godly womanhood and godly manhood is about taking your God-given sexuality and personality and growing closer to God and deeper into who the Lord wants you to be as an individual man or woman. It is about embracing who God has created you to be, who He has intended you to be, and living joyfully for Him and serving Him and others (and one day, your spouse)willingly in the roles He has prepared for you.

Christ does exemplify all of these characteristics – protector, warrior, lover of our souls, leader, artist, friend, and provider, but I liked how you expressed this via a human man. Sometimes when we look at Christ, the perfect God-Man, it’s hard to live up to the example. Looking at King David, he was a sinful man and he battled many of the same temptations and struggles that men (and women) battle today but he was still called a man after God’s own heart. When I hear that, I think, “Wow, God still loved an incredibly sinful fallen man such as David and used him for His glory and for His kingdom’s purposes…and God used Bathsheba, a fallen woman, to influence and support David and advance God’s kingdom also. He can use me too.”

Kristi, I’m interested then in what your list of approved masculine attributes looks like? What’s “in” and what’s “not”?

I also think that when some (not all) Christians envision Christ, they immediately associate meekness and humbleness with less than masculine qualities. I disagree. He was a carpenter…without that nice electric screwdriver. Jesus had muscles! Meekness resides in the heart, not the body. (a bit off topic, but I think there’s relevance there)

Second to that, God most certainly DOES define very definitive roles for men (masculine) and women (feminine). These roles are specifically designated by God, so to suggest that only character traits are relevant to God seems to be somewhat misleading. The character traits of God’s children are certainly internal and are about the hidden things within the heart, but to suggest that God gives no specific instruction on what is “masculine” is wrong. He does. He clearly separates men from women, and not only in matters of the heart, but in their duties and responsibilities. There’s just some things my fella can do that I can’t, and don’t want, to do! This is by design, not merely internal character traits. God designed men differently than women because it matters.

I think the post is great and I believe to analyze and discuss this post outside of its context doesn’t give it the care it deserves. We have a crisis of young men who are being raised in a way that does NOT lend to being heads of their households as they grow and mature. This is a discussion we should be having in the context of the heart…AND in the context of masculine vs feminine. And yes, there IS a difference and both are relevant! God said so.

Finally, someone said this:

Do you see the difference between being after God’s heart because of your actions and being so because of your heart, love, character, relationship with Him?

I don’t think that J was in any way detracting from the Biblical stance of morality within the heart or that we are to love God fully. However, to suggest that someone’s actions do not reflect the state of the heart is wrong. To also suggest that God doesn’t designate masculine (men) traits and feminine (female) traits, is also wrong. Otherwise, he’d just have made Specimen A and Specimen B…with no differences between them. He very clearly didn’t do that.

E – I have long been a student of the Bible and have researched gender roles through all of these passages. Essentially, I have done the “advanced Bible study.” I know what the Bible says about this subject and what my own take-away is. I was wondering what yours was.

I like Greg’s equation as well.