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	<title>
	Comments on: Are We Naturally Monogamous?	</title>
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	<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/</link>
	<description>God&#039;s Design for Marital Intimacy</description>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Stamm		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13954</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Stamm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2014 13:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=2337#comment-13954</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree with J when she says of marriage; &quot;the ideal is one man + one woman.&quot; Paul make this abundantly clear in 1 Timothy 3:2 and Titus 1:6. Thank you for such a great blog your words have helped me in the past months more than you could know. - Steve]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with J when she says of marriage; &#8220;the ideal is one man + one woman.&#8221; Paul make this abundantly clear in 1 Timothy 3:2 and Titus 1:6. Thank you for such a great blog your words have helped me in the past months more than you could know. &#8211; Steve</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tracy		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13940</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tracy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2014 20:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=2337#comment-13940</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13923&quot;&gt;Steve Stamm&lt;/a&gt;.

         In the parable Jesus was not picturing himself as marrying five women, and refusing to marry five more because they were late.  He did liken the kingdom of God to ten virgins, but did not make the analogy that it was the bride is Christ in this passage. (He made this analogy elsewhere, with no evidence the 2 analogies are related, example, he also likened it to a singular mustard seed in other passages)   They were part of the wedding party and we&#039;re not allowed to be part of the feast.  This was to show that some in His Kingdom will be ready when he comes back to earth, and some won&#039;t.   

        We definitely have to use scripture that talks about divorce and adultery when it comes to polygamy.  Because it illustrates the fact that a man MUST be faithful to his spouse, even if he&#039;s married to the other woman!  Just because he marries the other woman, does not negate the adultery.  

               Unfortunately, I fear you may be right about the legalization, and all the hurt that could come from that!  This is why John the Baptist was beheaded.  Read Mark 6: 16-29. Herod married his brother&#039;s wife, and John told him he wasn&#039;t allowed to have her anymore.  Just because they were married did not mean it was ok to continue the relationship. Yes God does hate divorce, but does allow it in the case of adultery.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13923">Steve Stamm</a>.</p>
<p>         In the parable Jesus was not picturing himself as marrying five women, and refusing to marry five more because they were late.  He did liken the kingdom of God to ten virgins, but did not make the analogy that it was the bride is Christ in this passage. (He made this analogy elsewhere, with no evidence the 2 analogies are related, example, he also likened it to a singular mustard seed in other passages)   They were part of the wedding party and we&#8217;re not allowed to be part of the feast.  This was to show that some in His Kingdom will be ready when he comes back to earth, and some won&#8217;t.   </p>
<p>        We definitely have to use scripture that talks about divorce and adultery when it comes to polygamy.  Because it illustrates the fact that a man MUST be faithful to his spouse, even if he&#8217;s married to the other woman!  Just because he marries the other woman, does not negate the adultery.  </p>
<p>               Unfortunately, I fear you may be right about the legalization, and all the hurt that could come from that!  This is why John the Baptist was beheaded.  Read Mark 6: 16-29. Herod married his brother&#8217;s wife, and John told him he wasn&#8217;t allowed to have her anymore.  Just because they were married did not mean it was ok to continue the relationship. Yes God does hate divorce, but does allow it in the case of adultery.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13936</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2014 18:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=2337#comment-13936</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13923&quot;&gt;Steve Stamm&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;m not going to get deep into this debate, because there&#039;s a lot here and that&#039;s not really the focus I want to pursue. But I believe the Bible&#039;s clear that the ideal is one man + one woman.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13923">Steve Stamm</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to get deep into this debate, because there&#8217;s a lot here and that&#8217;s not really the focus I want to pursue. But I believe the Bible&#8217;s clear that the ideal is one man + one woman.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Stamm		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13923</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Stamm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2014 03:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=2337#comment-13923</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13873&quot;&gt;Tracy&lt;/a&gt;.

Tracy,

Thanks for your kind words.

Actually, the point I was making was based on God’s nature which does not change (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8) The point was that he would not picture himself doing something immoral regardless of which covenant he is dealing with at the time. If you want an example in the New Testament look at Jesus’ parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25:1-13. Most modern readers believe that the ten virgins are bridesmaids but the text clearly says that they represent the Kingdom of God which is the Church, the BRIDE of Christ. It is difficult to see, if polygamy is inherently immoral, why Jesus would feature himself in a parable marrying five virgins at the same time!

One theological point I thought I’d mention. It was the Old Law, not the Old Testament (the book) that was nailed to the cross. Remember that the early church used the Old Testament like we use the New Testament. We just have to be careful how we use it remembering that we are not under law but are under grace.

Lots of folks try to mix thinking about polygamy with Jesus’ teaching on divorce but you really cannot do that. We are not talking about divorcing anyone. Instead, we are talking about not divorcing and while married to a first wife marrying another. Thus, any teaching on divorce has nothing to say about the issue. Wouldn’t you agree?

People also sometimes appeal to God’s creation of Eve for Adam as proof that monogamy is the plan but when Jesus appeals to the beginning he is talking about divorce not plural marriage. In other words, God put them together and he expects them to stay together. Just because God gave Adam one wife doesn’t really say anything about polygamy because the same God gave David hundreds of wives and that had nothing to do with the Old Law.

The reason all this is important is that we will shortly be faced with dealing with it when people involved in these marriages convert to Christianity. If what God really cares about is the oath that these husbands took to live with their wives as wives and we tell them that they have to divorce all of them except the first wife in order to become Christians and we are wrong, then we are guilty of violating both Galatians 1:8 and God’s declaration that he hates divorce. I bet you and I can agree that this is a situation that we do not want to risk being in! - Steve]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13873">Tracy</a>.</p>
<p>Tracy,</p>
<p>Thanks for your kind words.</p>
<p>Actually, the point I was making was based on God’s nature which does not change (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8) The point was that he would not picture himself doing something immoral regardless of which covenant he is dealing with at the time. If you want an example in the New Testament look at Jesus’ parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25:1-13. Most modern readers believe that the ten virgins are bridesmaids but the text clearly says that they represent the Kingdom of God which is the Church, the BRIDE of Christ. It is difficult to see, if polygamy is inherently immoral, why Jesus would feature himself in a parable marrying five virgins at the same time!</p>
<p>One theological point I thought I’d mention. It was the Old Law, not the Old Testament (the book) that was nailed to the cross. Remember that the early church used the Old Testament like we use the New Testament. We just have to be careful how we use it remembering that we are not under law but are under grace.</p>
<p>Lots of folks try to mix thinking about polygamy with Jesus’ teaching on divorce but you really cannot do that. We are not talking about divorcing anyone. Instead, we are talking about not divorcing and while married to a first wife marrying another. Thus, any teaching on divorce has nothing to say about the issue. Wouldn’t you agree?</p>
<p>People also sometimes appeal to God’s creation of Eve for Adam as proof that monogamy is the plan but when Jesus appeals to the beginning he is talking about divorce not plural marriage. In other words, God put them together and he expects them to stay together. Just because God gave Adam one wife doesn’t really say anything about polygamy because the same God gave David hundreds of wives and that had nothing to do with the Old Law.</p>
<p>The reason all this is important is that we will shortly be faced with dealing with it when people involved in these marriages convert to Christianity. If what God really cares about is the oath that these husbands took to live with their wives as wives and we tell them that they have to divorce all of them except the first wife in order to become Christians and we are wrong, then we are guilty of violating both Galatians 1:8 and God’s declaration that he hates divorce. I bet you and I can agree that this is a situation that we do not want to risk being in! &#8211; Steve</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tracy		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13873</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tracy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 22:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=2337#comment-13873</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13840&quot;&gt;Steve Stamm&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you for responding Steve.  I am very happy that you are strict in your use of scripture to condemn or justify an action.  I wish more who claim to follow Christ held that conviction!  The scriptures and examples you listed were from the Old Testament;  which can teach us many lessons, but commands and freedoms(?better term) we are not bound or loosed by unless repeated in the New Testament (many are).  Hebrews 8:7-13. vs 7 says &quot;For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should have been sought no place for the second.&quot;  
     Luke 16:18 says &quot;Whosoever putteth away his wife and marrieth another committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away committeth adultery.&quot;  This verse says if a man even divorces his wife and marries another woman he&#039;s committing adultery!  Of course we know other passages such as Matthew 5:32 that say if she&#039;s been sexually unfaithful, that is the one exception God recognizes.  In the Old Testament, God not only allowed divorce for other reasons, but even commanded them to put away their Cananite wives.  So we cannot look to all principles of Old Law marriage in the same way we can most other principles. (Btw Adam and Eve were created before God gave Moses the law.)  Acts 17:30 says that those times, were &quot;times of ignorance,&quot; and God &quot;winked at&quot; them.  He closed his eyes to certain downfalls and injustices of the time.  -Tracy]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13840">Steve Stamm</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you for responding Steve.  I am very happy that you are strict in your use of scripture to condemn or justify an action.  I wish more who claim to follow Christ held that conviction!  The scriptures and examples you listed were from the Old Testament;  which can teach us many lessons, but commands and freedoms(?better term) we are not bound or loosed by unless repeated in the New Testament (many are).  Hebrews 8:7-13. vs 7 says &#8220;For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should have been sought no place for the second.&#8221;<br />
     Luke 16:18 says &#8220;Whosoever putteth away his wife and marrieth another committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away committeth adultery.&#8221;  This verse says if a man even divorces his wife and marries another woman he&#8217;s committing adultery!  Of course we know other passages such as Matthew 5:32 that say if she&#8217;s been sexually unfaithful, that is the one exception God recognizes.  In the Old Testament, God not only allowed divorce for other reasons, but even commanded them to put away their Cananite wives.  So we cannot look to all principles of Old Law marriage in the same way we can most other principles. (Btw Adam and Eve were created before God gave Moses the law.)  Acts 17:30 says that those times, were &#8220;times of ignorance,&#8221; and God &#8220;winked at&#8221; them.  He closed his eyes to certain downfalls and injustices of the time.  -Tracy</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Stamm		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13840</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Stamm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 02:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=2337#comment-13840</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13780&quot;&gt;Tracy&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Tracy,

You are correct that I support monogamous marriage as the best and highest ideal for marriage.

I guess &#039;designed&#039; may have been too strong a word. What I intended to convey was that there are certain realities in the physical world that in some instances make polygamy a necessity. God recognizes these realities when he commands the practice of Levirate marriage in Deuteronomy 25:5-6. God also regulates the practice of polygamy in the Old Testament so that wives do not fall victim to its abuses. 

The truth is that the practice of polygamy is apparently one of those arrangements that are lawful but not profitable. (1 Corinthians 6:12). Paul tells Timothy and Titus that an Elder must be the husband of one wife. The reason for this is that having two wives is somewhat intemperate and possibly shows a failure to control ones passions. 

I know this view will not be well received by many today but before reacting, take a look at Ezekiel 23 (This chapter is very graphic so beware.). God represents himself as a polygamous husband married to two sisters. Where else does God attribute, even metaphorically, actions to himself that are inherently immoral? Another point in this argument is that when King David sins with Bathsheba, Nathan the prophet comes to him with a message from God: 2 Samuel 12 &quot;7bThus says the Lord God of Israel... 8 I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms.&quot; Did God cause David to sin by giving him all those wives? Of course he didn&#039;t.

It&#039;s difficult for me, absent any direct condemnation of polygamy in the Bible, to condemn what God has not condemned. Although he was against polygamy in general Martin Luther famously wrote: &quot;I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter.&quot;

This is an issue that we will be dealing with in the Church in the very near future as laws against polygamy fall in the wake of Same Sex Marriage legalization.

Steve]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13780">Tracy</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Tracy,</p>
<p>You are correct that I support monogamous marriage as the best and highest ideal for marriage.</p>
<p>I guess &#8216;designed&#8217; may have been too strong a word. What I intended to convey was that there are certain realities in the physical world that in some instances make polygamy a necessity. God recognizes these realities when he commands the practice of Levirate marriage in Deuteronomy 25:5-6. God also regulates the practice of polygamy in the Old Testament so that wives do not fall victim to its abuses. </p>
<p>The truth is that the practice of polygamy is apparently one of those arrangements that are lawful but not profitable. (1 Corinthians 6:12). Paul tells Timothy and Titus that an Elder must be the husband of one wife. The reason for this is that having two wives is somewhat intemperate and possibly shows a failure to control ones passions. </p>
<p>I know this view will not be well received by many today but before reacting, take a look at Ezekiel 23 (This chapter is very graphic so beware.). God represents himself as a polygamous husband married to two sisters. Where else does God attribute, even metaphorically, actions to himself that are inherently immoral? Another point in this argument is that when King David sins with Bathsheba, Nathan the prophet comes to him with a message from God: 2 Samuel 12 &#8220;7bThus says the Lord God of Israel&#8230; 8 I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms.&#8221; Did God cause David to sin by giving him all those wives? Of course he didn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s difficult for me, absent any direct condemnation of polygamy in the Bible, to condemn what God has not condemned. Although he was against polygamy in general Martin Luther famously wrote: &#8220;I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is an issue that we will be dealing with in the Church in the very near future as laws against polygamy fall in the wake of Same Sex Marriage legalization.</p>
<p>Steve</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Byerly		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13799</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Byerly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2014 05:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=2337#comment-13799</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I would probably be monogamous, even if I did not see other options as sin.

The whole idea of trying to explain everything by evolutionary benefit is pretty wacked. Even many who are all about evolution think it has been taken to extremes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would probably be monogamous, even if I did not see other options as sin.</p>
<p>The whole idea of trying to explain everything by evolutionary benefit is pretty wacked. Even many who are all about evolution think it has been taken to extremes.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tad		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13784</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=2337#comment-13784</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think the reason men or women seek out multiple partners is because deep down we crave intimacy on a spiritual level, and when one person doesn&#039;t fulfill that, we want to seek out another. That is where hard work and faith come in - First, to realize that true spiritual intimacy comes only from God, and second that if we find the person God has planned to be in our lives, and we enter into marriage determined to make intimacy work with that person and with JUST that person, we find that  deep need filled by both Christ and our spouse, and thus have no need for other sexual partners.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the reason men or women seek out multiple partners is because deep down we crave intimacy on a spiritual level, and when one person doesn&#8217;t fulfill that, we want to seek out another. That is where hard work and faith come in &#8211; First, to realize that true spiritual intimacy comes only from God, and second that if we find the person God has planned to be in our lives, and we enter into marriage determined to make intimacy work with that person and with JUST that person, we find that  deep need filled by both Christ and our spouse, and thus have no need for other sexual partners.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tracy		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13780</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tracy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=2337#comment-13780</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Steve, 
  I just wanted to ask what you meant by &quot;designed&quot; to have more than one partner.  Maybe you meant tempted?  I don&#039;t want to jump to conclusions on your meaning, but I believe if God designed man to have more than one partner he would have given him two or more wives instead of only Eve.  Also the Bible says two shall become one flesh.  The practice of polygamy was not God&#039;s design for man nor man for polygamy.  Also, some men may be tempted to lose their temper, murder, steal, etc. this is not God&#039;s design.  Although I can see you clearly support monogamous marriage,  I feel like you might be confusing temptation with design.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Steve,<br />
  I just wanted to ask what you meant by &#8220;designed&#8221; to have more than one partner.  Maybe you meant tempted?  I don&#8217;t want to jump to conclusions on your meaning, but I believe if God designed man to have more than one partner he would have given him two or more wives instead of only Eve.  Also the Bible says two shall become one flesh.  The practice of polygamy was not God&#8217;s design for man nor man for polygamy.  Also, some men may be tempted to lose their temper, murder, steal, etc. this is not God&#8217;s design.  Although I can see you clearly support monogamous marriage,  I feel like you might be confusing temptation with design.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13761</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2014 14:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=2337#comment-13761</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13760&quot;&gt;Steve Stamm&lt;/a&gt;.

Fabulous! Then we agree on that. :) I liked the scriptures you cited too. Blessings!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2014/03/03/are-we-naturally-monogamous/#comment-13760">Steve Stamm</a>.</p>
<p>Fabulous! Then we agree on that. 🙂 I liked the scriptures you cited too. Blessings!</p>
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