I downloaded Cherish on my nook. It’s a pretty quick read. I think the bottom line is make your spouse the only one for you. If there was a one liner to take out of that 60-90 minute read, it was that.

I have Boundaries and dug it out of my box of “divorce” books from the last marriage. I don’t have the Boundaries in Marriage, so I’ll re-read what I have for now.

Two books: CHERISH by Gary Thomas and BOUNDARIES IN MARRIAGE by John Townsend and Henry Cloud. I think loving your wife as Christ loved the church is a balance of extravagant love and reasonable standards; just look at Jesus’s life. That’s my two cents.

OK, so you initiate more than your husband.

How does that help the husband whose wife doesn’t initiate and he has been turned down, oh, since March, if we are counting here?

It’s not like he’s not romantic. But he may simply be worn out for being criticized for something as insignificant as which parking spot he chooses.

There are many of us who ARE putting out the effort, NOT looking at porn, and things are not getting any better.

I listened to my wife. … I wonder if anyone is listening to me?

Many of us are tired of the double standard. If things are bad, well it must be something we are doing wrong.

So when we call it out, we are told we are all wet, it’s not a double standard. You should be like those guys we read about in the romance novel, but don’t ever suggest that your wives should display the enthusiasm of a porn actress. (And yes, both are fake.)

Seriously, some of us are just tired of the double standard. Tired of the criticism, tired of the blame, tired of the entitled princess or queen without the corresponding privileges of prince or king.

So if you want the fairy tale, you can’t treat your husband like a slave. He might just run away. If you want an intimate partner, you have to be an actual partner. You can’t treat your husband as if he’s staff, or that he’s ignorant, or that he doesn’t do relationships better than you, or that your ideas are always better.

Otherwise, you just have a servant, not a spouse. Who would stick around for that?

Actually Tony, many guys started using some form of porn when they were preteens or teens. Thats when my husband started. Of course I didn’t know what he was watching while we were dating and engaged and the first year of our marriage. He totally deceived me. And no, I’ve never withheld myself from him. Actually, I initiate more often than he does, if you really want to know.

As for romance books. What’s wrong with guys trying to be more like the romance heros? You know, listen to your wife and don’t just try to fix her. Sometimes buy her flowers or chocolate or whatever she likes when it’s not Valentine’s Day. Look into her eyes and tell her she’s beautiful. For crying out loud, take her on a picnic! Whenever I read a (always clean) romance book, those are the things the guys did that always made me want find someone to love me too. Seriously, for men that are putting out a little effort, clean romance books are no threat.

Oh, no doubt. The serial refuser has some justification for the sinful choice to refuse. Just like the justifications of the serial porn or romance novel readers.

Not making anyone better or worse than the other. Just want to speak up and make sure all of us, myself included are not ignoring the beam in my own eye while harshly judging someone else for a speck (or a full on beam for that matter) in theirs.

There’s a bit of excuse-making here honestly. It’s like yeah, men watch porn, but often because their wives won’t have sex with them and besides romance novels are just as bad. I’ve absolutely addressed the problems with romance novels creating unrealistic expectations and the sin of sexual refusal. But that doesn’t excuse watching porn.

Yes, let’s be consistent in calling wrong what’s obviously wrong. But I’d tell a woman who said, “I mostly read erotica because my husband won’t have enough sex with me,” that she’s blaming someone else for her sin. So it doesn’t work when men say it with porn. The Bible says, “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” so let’s own up to own issues, confess our sins, and turn in a new direction.

As long as we lump serial refusal in the same bucket, I’d have no problem with that.

I suspect many use porn not because it’s the better experience, but because it’s the ONLY experience after being serially refused by their spouse.

And let’s add romance novels. The serial consumption of romance novels also sets unrealistic expectations that no moral husband can meet.

I can see the case for idolatry being made for those who are sexual gate keepers, using it to control or hold power over their spouse. I can also see a similar case for idolitry made for those who read romance novels and then expect their husbands to be that man they just read about.

So if we are going to start down the path of sins of the mind, let’s not limit the discussion to only a cherry picked few. Let’s throw them all in there and be consistent.

I think serial porn use is adultery. And it’s interesting…because I think this is a distinction between how men and women often view this. Husbands need to understand: SHE sees it as you cheating on her. When a man is getting his sexual needs taken care of by another woman, is it excused because it’s on the screen? Let’s say someday that holograms are invented or virtual reality porn: Shall wives simply accept that as “oh well, not adultery”?

When a man understands his porn use is a problem and wants to fight against it, I believe a wife should 100% support his getting away from this horrible temptation. But a man who indulges constantly with zero regret, and no concern for the heart of his wife, is cheating her out of her 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 marital rights.

I’ve also studied this subject with experts in the field, and I think straightforward sexual adultery is not the only biblical reason to leave a marriage. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one, Eric.

I agree with this, and the only Bible basis for divorce that I can find in the New Testament is adultery. My comment was primarily a response to Ashley’s comment re “betrayal in the form of porn.” I agree with her that it’s “betrayal,” but I do not find porn use to be a basis for divorce.

Dr. Erwin Lutzer, about two weeks ago in his Moody Radio program “Running to Win,” noted that involvement in pornography is “demonic” and a form of “idolatry.” I agree. And that seems to be why, once hooked, porn (or simply looking at nude pictures in non-sexual poses) is a sin so hard to “get shet of,” as my Southern father-in-law used to say. It transcends the normal visual attraction men have for women, and once Satan’s minions get their claws into one’s imagination this has gone way past mere addiction. That pagans in Bible times worshiped nude images in immoral rituals seems to be one reason for the 2nd Commandment forbidding “graven images.”
Eric