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	Comments on: How Should We Treat Sexual Assault and Harassment Allegations?	</title>
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	<description>God&#039;s Design for Marital Intimacy</description>
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		<title>
		By: Brian		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73664</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=25551#comment-73664</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73663&quot;&gt;J&lt;/a&gt;.

I agree with you about reporting.  And it does weigh on me that she probably hurt many other men, and in fact I know she hurt other men in many ways after me.  In a way I did help her to be dealt with, just not for her sexual crimes.  I helped put her behind bars a few years after what she did to me by helping the police find her after she went on a stealing spree fueled by drugs.  I hope that helped put her on the right path but I don’t know.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73663">J</a>.</p>
<p>I agree with you about reporting.  And it does weigh on me that she probably hurt many other men, and in fact I know she hurt other men in many ways after me.  In a way I did help her to be dealt with, just not for her sexual crimes.  I helped put her behind bars a few years after what she did to me by helping the police find her after she went on a stealing spree fueled by drugs.  I hope that helped put her on the right path but I don’t know.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73663</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=25551#comment-73663</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73592&quot;&gt;Brian&lt;/a&gt;.

I can understand that. I just think we all need to be way better about reporting when it happens, especially since few perpetrators do something like this only once...and our speaking up can save someone else the heartache we went through.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73592">Brian</a>.</p>
<p>I can understand that. I just think we all need to be way better about reporting when it happens, especially since few perpetrators do something like this only once&#8230;and our speaking up can save someone else the heartache we went through.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brian		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73592</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2018 18:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=25551#comment-73592</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73583&quot;&gt;J&lt;/a&gt;.

Sometimes things that happened in the past are better left in the past. The girl that took advantage of me was certainly evil then, but it’s been 22 years.  She’s almost certainly a different person now and happens to be married to someone very important. What good would reporting her or blasting her name in social media do?  I forgave her long ago, and what she did to me was very much my fault in so many ways anyway. I’m a man, and no one would believe me or give me the slightest bit of sympathy. If I did that it would be just because I wanted to hurt her, and that is the definition of revenge.  Revenge doesn’t belong to me. It belongs to God. Why would I destroy her, her husband, and her children over something she did when she was so young?  If I wanted justice, not that I would’ve gotten justice, I should have reported it then.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73583">J</a>.</p>
<p>Sometimes things that happened in the past are better left in the past. The girl that took advantage of me was certainly evil then, but it’s been 22 years.  She’s almost certainly a different person now and happens to be married to someone very important. What good would reporting her or blasting her name in social media do?  I forgave her long ago, and what she did to me was very much my fault in so many ways anyway. I’m a man, and no one would believe me or give me the slightest bit of sympathy. If I did that it would be just because I wanted to hurt her, and that is the definition of revenge.  Revenge doesn’t belong to me. It belongs to God. Why would I destroy her, her husband, and her children over something she did when she was so young?  If I wanted justice, not that I would’ve gotten justice, I should have reported it then.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73585</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2018 17:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=25551#comment-73585</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73444&quot;&gt;Brian&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks, but those questions...they really have hurt a number of women in they way they&#039;ve been asked. As if drinking or dressing in a flirtatious way was &quot;asking for it.&quot; UGH. We should certainly gather as much information as possible, but we used to do this so badly. I&#039;m glad to see how many law enforcement officers and prosecutors are now taking seriously how to interview accusers/victims so that they can gather evidence without verbally attacking someone who has already been physically attacked.

By the way, it just occurred to me that one of my favorite shows recently is BROADCHURCH, a British crime series in which third season is about solving a case of rape. And they did an astoundingly good job showing how such incidents can be handled with both thoroughness and compassion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73444">Brian</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks, but those questions&#8230;they really have hurt a number of women in they way they&#8217;ve been asked. As if drinking or dressing in a flirtatious way was &#8220;asking for it.&#8221; UGH. We should certainly gather as much information as possible, but we used to do this so badly. I&#8217;m glad to see how many law enforcement officers and prosecutors are now taking seriously how to interview accusers/victims so that they can gather evidence without verbally attacking someone who has already been physically attacked.</p>
<p>By the way, it just occurred to me that one of my favorite shows recently is BROADCHURCH, a British crime series in which third season is about solving a case of rape. And they did an astoundingly good job showing how such incidents can be handled with both thoroughness and compassion.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73583</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2018 17:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=25551#comment-73583</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73517&quot;&gt;Jon&lt;/a&gt;.

It cracks my heart that you went through this.

However, I honestly don&#039;t understand this statement: &quot;I was not going to destroy someone’s life for revenge by reporting it.&quot; WHAT?! That is justice, not revenge, my friend. If someone faces the consequences of sexual assault, that was their choice to sin / commit a crime. 

And this is a blanket statement against women: &quot;Women obtain power over men in any way they can so they can feel powerful and in control.&quot; Which simply isn&#039;t true of many females.

My point is simply that some evil people will assault or take advantage, and they should be stopped and made to pay for their actions (because that&#039;s justice and how we learn!). But indeed, truth matters so that should be pursued as well. False accusations don&#039;t help us put resources where they should be -- on real assaults, of which there are too many.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73517">Jon</a>.</p>
<p>It cracks my heart that you went through this.</p>
<p>However, I honestly don&#8217;t understand this statement: &#8220;I was not going to destroy someone’s life for revenge by reporting it.&#8221; WHAT?! That is justice, not revenge, my friend. If someone faces the consequences of sexual assault, that was their choice to sin / commit a crime. </p>
<p>And this is a blanket statement against women: &#8220;Women obtain power over men in any way they can so they can feel powerful and in control.&#8221; Which simply isn&#8217;t true of many females.</p>
<p>My point is simply that some evil people will assault or take advantage, and they should be stopped and made to pay for their actions (because that&#8217;s justice and how we learn!). But indeed, truth matters so that should be pursued as well. False accusations don&#8217;t help us put resources where they should be &#8212; on real assaults, of which there are too many.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jon		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73517</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2018 08:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=25551#comment-73517</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was sexually abused as a child, but no one believed me. I also lost my virginity from a rape, but I never reported it.  (The full story was that I had two bottles of wine in me and I put myself in a compromising situation with my impaired judgment.  There is only so many times a person can say &quot;no&quot; and &quot;please stop&quot; before it&#039;s too late. 
That is not an excuse to justify that persons assault, but I was not going to destroy someone&#039;s life for revenge by reporting it.  And anyway, no one would believe a man, even one that caught a curable STD in the assault.) 

I have also been on the opposite side and have been falsely accused of harassment and stalking. Women obtain power over men in any way they can so they can feel powerful and in control.  These people are hurt and they are trying to function the best they can in a messed-up world.  They hurt others.

I do not trust people now.  People are selfish and do what validates their world view even at the detriment to others.   I am blessed to have an amazing wife and children I do trust though.  In the end, God&#039;s love wins.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was sexually abused as a child, but no one believed me. I also lost my virginity from a rape, but I never reported it.  (The full story was that I had two bottles of wine in me and I put myself in a compromising situation with my impaired judgment.  There is only so many times a person can say &#8220;no&#8221; and &#8220;please stop&#8221; before it&#8217;s too late.<br />
That is not an excuse to justify that persons assault, but I was not going to destroy someone&#8217;s life for revenge by reporting it.  And anyway, no one would believe a man, even one that caught a curable STD in the assault.) </p>
<p>I have also been on the opposite side and have been falsely accused of harassment and stalking. Women obtain power over men in any way they can so they can feel powerful and in control.  These people are hurt and they are trying to function the best they can in a messed-up world.  They hurt others.</p>
<p>I do not trust people now.  People are selfish and do what validates their world view even at the detriment to others.   I am blessed to have an amazing wife and children I do trust though.  In the end, God&#8217;s love wins.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bobthemusicguy		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73468</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bobthemusicguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2018 14:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=25551#comment-73468</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73467&quot;&gt;Brian&lt;/a&gt;.

Brian, thanks for your words of support. I don&#039;t think you are the only one at all. It&#039;s like the nightly news. All we usually see is the bad stuff, so we forget that there are lots of good citizens out there who daily go about their business without causing or receiving trouble. You see accusations, true or false, tending to be concentrated in certain kinds of jobs, or in certain kinds of relationships, whether in schools, workplaces, or homes.

If I had been the father of that girl, I would have been angry at me, too. But I knew enough about the family history to know that the parents should have had at least some question of their daughter&#039;s veracity. And my bosses at the school knew my character and doubted the accusations. They also had a history with the girl. What hurt me the most, after the investigation was over and I was cleared, was that there was nothing in the way of apology from the parents or the girl. I was swept under the rug.

Because of the emotions involved, there is often an understandable rush to judgement. But also the fact that this has become a media circus, turns people against each other in irrational ways. I think that, although there is a danger of sweeping things under rug, such accusations should be handle privately and quietly, much like what is supposed to happen in juvenile court. That would protect the victims and encourage them to come forward, and it would protect the accused should the accusations prove false. By all means, let&#039;s be loud in our condemnation of sex crimes IN GENERAL and support victims IN GENERAL. But let&#039;s try to cut out the public spectacle that often goes along with this.

I have a very real concern that this, like many other worthy causes, becomes a &quot;cause du jour&quot; that dies down and it soon forgotten, while making little if any, substantive change.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73467">Brian</a>.</p>
<p>Brian, thanks for your words of support. I don&#8217;t think you are the only one at all. It&#8217;s like the nightly news. All we usually see is the bad stuff, so we forget that there are lots of good citizens out there who daily go about their business without causing or receiving trouble. You see accusations, true or false, tending to be concentrated in certain kinds of jobs, or in certain kinds of relationships, whether in schools, workplaces, or homes.</p>
<p>If I had been the father of that girl, I would have been angry at me, too. But I knew enough about the family history to know that the parents should have had at least some question of their daughter&#8217;s veracity. And my bosses at the school knew my character and doubted the accusations. They also had a history with the girl. What hurt me the most, after the investigation was over and I was cleared, was that there was nothing in the way of apology from the parents or the girl. I was swept under the rug.</p>
<p>Because of the emotions involved, there is often an understandable rush to judgement. But also the fact that this has become a media circus, turns people against each other in irrational ways. I think that, although there is a danger of sweeping things under rug, such accusations should be handle privately and quietly, much like what is supposed to happen in juvenile court. That would protect the victims and encourage them to come forward, and it would protect the accused should the accusations prove false. By all means, let&#8217;s be loud in our condemnation of sex crimes IN GENERAL and support victims IN GENERAL. But let&#8217;s try to cut out the public spectacle that often goes along with this.</p>
<p>I have a very real concern that this, like many other worthy causes, becomes a &#8220;cause du jour&#8221; that dies down and it soon forgotten, while making little if any, substantive change.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brian		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73467</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2018 14:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=25551#comment-73467</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73459&quot;&gt;Bobthemusicguy&lt;/a&gt;.

Bobthemusicguy, you are one of so many male teachers I’ve heard of that get accused of sexual abuse in school. At one point I considered becoming a teacher when I got out of the Army, and I’m now glad that I didn’t.  I’m glad you were cleared of that, but if she hadn’t confessed you never would have lifted that shadow of suspicion even if you had been found innocent by the school.  

Am I the only man on this thread who hasn’t been falsely accused of sexual harassment or assault?  This seems extreme.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73459">Bobthemusicguy</a>.</p>
<p>Bobthemusicguy, you are one of so many male teachers I’ve heard of that get accused of sexual abuse in school. At one point I considered becoming a teacher when I got out of the Army, and I’m now glad that I didn’t.  I’m glad you were cleared of that, but if she hadn’t confessed you never would have lifted that shadow of suspicion even if you had been found innocent by the school.  </p>
<p>Am I the only man on this thread who hasn’t been falsely accused of sexual harassment or assault?  This seems extreme.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73465</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2018 13:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=25551#comment-73465</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73459&quot;&gt;Bobthemusicguy&lt;/a&gt;.

I agree with everything you said, and I&#039;m heartbroken that you went through such tough experiences. Honestly, while I don&#039;t want to get into current politics, I&#039;ve been saying many times over during recent discussions that it MATTERS what actually happened. It can be easy to lump people together and stereotype (one way or another), but individual cases affect individual people and families...and our God is—and thus we should be—concerned about the truth.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73459">Bobthemusicguy</a>.</p>
<p>I agree with everything you said, and I&#8217;m heartbroken that you went through such tough experiences. Honestly, while I don&#8217;t want to get into current politics, I&#8217;ve been saying many times over during recent discussions that it MATTERS what actually happened. It can be easy to lump people together and stereotype (one way or another), but individual cases affect individual people and families&#8230;and our God is—and thus we should be—concerned about the truth.</p>
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		By: Bobthemusicguy		</title>
		<link>https://hotholyhumorous.com/2018/09/24/how-should-we-treat-allegations/#comment-73459</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bobthemusicguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2018 04:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://hotholyhumorous.com/?p=25551#comment-73459</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[J, thanks for a difficult post and what I hope will turn out to be a fruitful discussion. I know you said this post is not about male-bashing, but this whole discussion, here and across the nation, is taking place in a culture of politically correct male-bashing. Universities are now teaching required courses on toxic masculinity. Young men are constantly being fed the line that, simply by being male, that are bad, they are predators, they are nothing but trouble.

I’ve been on both sides of this. As a young teacher, I was falsely accused by a female student of sexually and physically abusing her. She finally admitted to the lies, but it put me and my wife though hell. And it changed the way I interacted with my students. I withdrew from them more and hardened myself against any caring for them. And this was at a time when the educational mantra was, “they won’t care what you know until they know you care.”

On the other side, I was molested as a boy. The shame and fear kept me silent. One was by an employee of a men’s clothing store. When I was a young teenager, he took advantage of me. I was so afraid and ashamed that I never told anyone about it until this year, and I’m 61 now.

Earlier, I was abused by my own brothers. Talk about afraid to speak up! I knew even that young that they would deny it and would probably beat me up if I told. I finally told my parents about it when I was 40. I had forgiven them and was trying to get past it, but my dad confronted them. Of course they denied it, and the whole thing destroyed any relationship I have with my family now. I understand why those who don’t speak up want to keep silent.

I think where I am now on this is, please, please, please don’t lump me in with these horrible men who do these horrible things. Investigate the allegations, prosecute when warranted, reject false claims, show some discernment and common sense.

But what I pick up in the media, and to an extent from some commentors on blog discussions like this one, is that there is a widespread suspicion of men as men. I’m convinced that during the years that my wife was sexually refusing me, she was being influenced by this cultural atmosphere that assumes men are animals or worse, that all of us men are to be regarded with suspicion, and that all men need to start apologizing for and atoning for the evil acts of some men.

Sorry for the long rant, but I’m torn between heartbreak for real victims, and outrage that in the minds of many women, I’m lumped into a group of bad people merely because I share the trait of having xy chromosomes. You might equally lump me in with bad people who have brown hair, wear glasses, or like French toast. Let’s try to judge each case on its merits or lack or merits.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J, thanks for a difficult post and what I hope will turn out to be a fruitful discussion. I know you said this post is not about male-bashing, but this whole discussion, here and across the nation, is taking place in a culture of politically correct male-bashing. Universities are now teaching required courses on toxic masculinity. Young men are constantly being fed the line that, simply by being male, that are bad, they are predators, they are nothing but trouble.</p>
<p>I’ve been on both sides of this. As a young teacher, I was falsely accused by a female student of sexually and physically abusing her. She finally admitted to the lies, but it put me and my wife though hell. And it changed the way I interacted with my students. I withdrew from them more and hardened myself against any caring for them. And this was at a time when the educational mantra was, “they won’t care what you know until they know you care.”</p>
<p>On the other side, I was molested as a boy. The shame and fear kept me silent. One was by an employee of a men’s clothing store. When I was a young teenager, he took advantage of me. I was so afraid and ashamed that I never told anyone about it until this year, and I’m 61 now.</p>
<p>Earlier, I was abused by my own brothers. Talk about afraid to speak up! I knew even that young that they would deny it and would probably beat me up if I told. I finally told my parents about it when I was 40. I had forgiven them and was trying to get past it, but my dad confronted them. Of course they denied it, and the whole thing destroyed any relationship I have with my family now. I understand why those who don’t speak up want to keep silent.</p>
<p>I think where I am now on this is, please, please, please don’t lump me in with these horrible men who do these horrible things. Investigate the allegations, prosecute when warranted, reject false claims, show some discernment and common sense.</p>
<p>But what I pick up in the media, and to an extent from some commentors on blog discussions like this one, is that there is a widespread suspicion of men as men. I’m convinced that during the years that my wife was sexually refusing me, she was being influenced by this cultural atmosphere that assumes men are animals or worse, that all of us men are to be regarded with suspicion, and that all men need to start apologizing for and atoning for the evil acts of some men.</p>
<p>Sorry for the long rant, but I’m torn between heartbreak for real victims, and outrage that in the minds of many women, I’m lumped into a group of bad people merely because I share the trait of having xy chromosomes. You might equally lump me in with bad people who have brown hair, wear glasses, or like French toast. Let’s try to judge each case on its merits or lack or merits.</p>
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