Terry, I grew up hearing a lot of modesty messages. I think the damage is often how it is often talked about behind closed doors—it isn’t done at all in a way that is edifying to women/girls. The girls aren’t the only audience though—-their brothers are hearing these messages as well.
I grew up going to a Catholic school wearing a uniform as part of a dress code that was much more restrictive for girls than boys.
You infer that by dressing modestly that gives the message to others that they should respect us—-but that isn’t always the way it works out. I have no idea of how the Duggar daughters were taught about modesty—-but they weren’t protected from their brother Josh. I could tell you stories about how being modest didn’t protect me or the young women I went to school with from disrespectful treatment. And even when everyone in a group is wearing the prescribed modest uniform—there is always someone who will be perceived as less modest.

Terry,

Your husband seems like a stand-up guy (serious comment, no sarcasm). Shake his hand for me and appreciate him all your days. Not many men (or women) like that anymore.

It’s a good point you make about modesty looking different for each gender, with clothing being a larger part of women’s presentation of themselves and men not lording their accomplishments over other men, perhaps. This idea makes me think of my husband who has done well building up his company as a natural leader but is an unassuming guy otherwise, and keeps a separate account for supporting missionaries and giving to organizations like Samaritan’s Purse. In my college Latin class we were told that the only “acceptable” way of showing off one’s wealth in Roman (and Greek) society was in sponsoring public works such as art, fountains, the theater etc. We see this done more by corporations today than by individuals, but in our individualistic culture this different way of thinking is certainly a page we could take from a pagan playbook.

I really like how you phrased this: “How we dress can either convey the message that…’I respect myself; therefore you will respect me.'” Whether someone chooses to treat us appropriately is beyond our control, but dress is one piece of overall behavior that signals what treatment we expect from others.

As for the modesty message falling more on women, I’m not sure about that. Modesty is important for both men and women; it just might look a little different for each. That is, perhaps dress is more a part of a woman’s consideration of how she presents herself, while men need to be careful not to flaunt other stuff, like their riches or strength or whatever. God is concerned that all of His children act in appropriate ways to avoid offense and envy and stumbling blocks, but the way that comes out in the moment may be different according to gender, culture, etc.

As for not dating someone who isn’t a Christian because “we don’t know who we might fall in love with,” it may indeed be unwise to go out with someone who isn’t a Christian. But if we did a better job of teaching that falling in love isn’t the same as choosing someone to commit to for life, then maybe we would have fewer issues overall. My husband is not the first guy I fell in love with, but I’m glad I didn’t marry those other blokes. I waited for someone I could build a life with. That said, I admit that I’m glad my older son fell in love once with a girl worth committing to—a lovely Christian woman.

The topic of modesty seems to have been in society’s crosshairs recently, portrayed as simply a means to “control women” (in the same vein of “taking choices away from women”) and suppress their right to self-expression. I agree that modesty is culturally-defined, and I hadn’t considered (or heard of) the idea that biblical modesty is more about behavior than mode of dress, but after going back to read over your blogs on modesty, it seems that a few points are worth reiterating. Beyond just “causing” men to lust (which I agree is to a large extent their problem), how we present ourselves publicly conveys how we view ourselves, respect ourselves (or not) and how we expect others to view and treat us. How we dress can either convey the message that “This is all there is, so take a good look,” or “I respect myself; therefore you will respect me.”

Even more, the devaluation of physical modesty, I really think, has led to an erosion of our autonomy over our own bodies. During the “naked scanner” controversy with the TSA, the message seemed to be, “What’s the big deal if strangers see you naked? We’ve evolved past this whole ‘modesty/privacy’ thing. This is purely a safety issue.” In other words, if some or most people didn’t think this was a big deal (which apparently most DID as this system was ultimately replaced with a more generic form), then I shouldn’t either. Another example is an incident I read about recently of a young woman whose bikini top was untied *while she was driving a car*, by the young man sitting behind her. Of course a crash resulted as she tried to cover herself, and while the guy behind her was killed(!) the other male passenger tried to sue her for his injuries, claiming that she should have pulled over on the interstate and stopped before covering herself. The jury sided with the driver (thankfully) but apart from the “visual” rape of this young woman (i.e., being forcibly undressed at a time when she could do little about it) the media seemed to take a cavalier attitude toward her right to modesty vs the safety of those who had forced her into this situation. This is likely an extreme example but it seems that in exercising our “right” to show off our bodies we may be giving away our say in who sees them and what happens to them. I suppose my point is that modesty IS largely a physical issue imo, and given that males are by and large so much more visually-oriented than females it’s natural that a larger portion of the modesty message would fall on the ladies.

Also just briefly on the topic of dating non-Christians…I agree that a date is not the same as courtship or being “yoked”, but why open the door to a romantic relationship with a non-believer? The message to us back in the day was that we don’t know who we might fall in love with, and I still agree that this is true. I refused dates with at least one guy in high school who I knew wasn’t a Christian, partly for this reason and also because I didn’t want to encourage him by even dating as friends. Jesus admonished Peter to “watch and pray that you do not fall into temptation,” knowing Peter’s weaknesses and that in a few hours he would deny even knowing Jesus. Young (and older) people need to keep a realistic view of our likelihood to fall in love and to rationalize that we can lead the other person to Christ within the context of a romantic relationship or marriage.

I simply reject the concept of “sexual compatibility.” I understand what’s meant by that, but even the situation you name, there are plenty of ways to address that fit issue (dilators, other sexual activities, etc.). And if you married someone you deemed beforehand to be entirely sexually compatible, so many factors could change that in the future and you’d have struggles you couldn’t have imagined at first. Resolvable struggles, but still.

Sexual compatibility is best addressed through values compatibility. That is, do you both understand going into the marriage what God’s design for sex in marriage is? Do you each see the benefit of mutual pleasure and connection above self-focused satisfaction? Are the sort who will commit to communicating, making an effort, and seeking help if needed to pursue holy and healthy sexual intimacy? Those are all issues that can be addressed before marriage, particularly with quality premarital counseling and/or resources on that topic.

I’m sad that your first marriage didn’t work out and glad you are happy with your current wife. But I suspect you could have discovered much of that before marriage, especially if/when you have the resources and support to learn all that. Blessings!